CHINESE LANG INFLUENCED M
本刊记者 曹定 屠芫芫
Reporters Cao Ding, Tu Yuanyuan
of Queensland University of Technology, Australia 谢博德简介：
谢博德先生目前任澳大利亚昆士兰科技大学副校长，主管国际与发展事务。在2008年2月就任该职位之前，谢博德先生曾任澳大利亚驻华大使馆公使衔参赞（教育、科学与培训）、澳大利亚驻香港经济参赞及澳大利亚昆士兰州政府驻中国首席代表。
长期以来，谢博德先生一直在澳大利亚联邦政府和州政府担任要职，在昆士兰州政府创立了国际教育与培训处。谢博德先生曾在台湾、香港和上海生活和工作达十多年。其专业背景为亚洲研究、中文与国际法。
Profile of Scott Sheppard
Scott Sheppard is the Deputy Vice-Chancellor
International and Development at QUT. He took up this role in February 2008 and previously held positio
ns as Minister-Counsellor at the Australian Embassy in Beijing, Consul Economic in Hong Kong and Queensland Commissioner to China. Scott has held a range of positions in Common-wealth and state governments and established the Queensland Education and Training Interna-tional program in the Queensland Government. He has lived and worked in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Shanghai for more than 10 years. Scott’s academic background is in Asian studies, Chinese language and international law.
本期人物
PEOPLE
中文影响我的人生
PEOPLE UAGE
Y LIFE
本期人物
记者：
在您上学的年代，中文还远没有像今天这样热门，当时为什么会想到学中文呢？
谢博德：说到这个的确很有意思。我是家里第一个上大学的，我爸爸家里都是工人，我妈妈家都是从农村来的。我上大学不是从高中毕业后直接进入的，而是先在工厂工作了3年，然后去念大学，那时我已经21岁了
。大学第一年有必修课，我就想学一门外语。可是我为什么选择学中文呢可能你会觉得有点奇怪，因为我希望学中国历史，因为我觉得中国的历史在所有国家中是最长的，最有意思的。所以我想学中文。学了一年后，我觉得中文很有意思，所以就坚持学下去。
记者：
中文对西方人来说，应该是很难学的一门语言，尤其在您上学的时代，缺少学习中文的环境，学习资源也都很稀缺吧？
谢博德：没错。很多人没有接触过中文之前就感到害怕，有心理束缚，所以不愿意去学。我的大学如果没有这个外语必修的规定，我也不会学。我学中文那时，周围没有语言环境，教师和学生说的都是英文。但到了我孩子这一代就不同了，他们从很小的时候就有机会接触中文，了解中国，有机会和中国人谈话，所以他们不怕，他们觉得中文一点儿也不难。他们现在上中学了，还在继续学中文，所以，和我相比，我孩子这一代学习中文是幸运的。
记者：在您学中文之前，中国在您脑海里是什么样的？
谢博德：这个问题很有意思。我想有两个方面的印象：第一，我在高中时特别喜欢古代历史，特别是中国古代史。我看了很多和中国古代史相关的书籍和资料，觉得中国的古代历史非常丰富，所以最早对中国的印象是从书本知识里形成的。在大学，我提出希望学中国或亚洲古代历史，但学校说他们只能教现代历史。于是，我开始学习中国现代历史，也就是从1911年开始以后的中国历史，这方面的学习对我的影响也很大。
编者按
随着中澳两国政治、经济、文化和教育领域合作的不断深入，在当今澳大利亚，学习汉语的澳大利亚人逐年递增。在精英阶层，也不乏“中国通”。本期接受我们专访的谢博德先生是澳大利亚昆士兰科技大学副校长，他中文流利，而且，他的生活、事业和家庭都受到了中文学习经历的重大影响。本次采访大部分谈话是用中文进行的，经过整理后，为读者呈现了一位深受中文学习积极影响的澳大利亚大学副校长的经历。
EDITOR'S NOTE
As cooperation between China and Australia deepens in politics, economics, culture, and education, th
e number of Australians learning Chinese grows larger every year. Among Australia’s elite, too, there is a significant number of “China Hands”. For this issue, we present an exclusive interview with
Mr. Scott Sheppard, Deputy Vice-Chancellor of Aus-tralia’s Queensland University of Technol-ogy. He speaks fluent Chinese. Learning Chinese has had a profound influence on his life, career, and family. The inter-view was mostly conducted in Chinese. After some editing, it brings to our readers the experience of an Austral-ian university Deputy Vice-Chancellor who has been profoundly influenced by the learning of Chinese.
PEOPLE
另一方面的印象应该是1981年，我高中毕业工作两年后，我去香港旅游了一个星期，那时候外国人到中国是很少的，中国控制得也很紧。我是第一次来中国，当时也完全不会中文。香港旅游之后，我坐火车先到了广东。那时候，深圳刚刚发展，什么高楼都没有。这次旅游对我也有很大的影响。回国以后，决定去大学开始学习中文。
记者：您当时看到的中国是在改革开放之初，那时，中国还没有
如今繁荣。
谢博德：当时很多中国人
还不富裕，他们希望能从广东
进入香港，在深圳与香港的边
界有很多警察。我大学毕业后
去了外交贸易部，过了两年，被
派到香港工作，从事经济领事
的工作，那个时候澳大利亚在
广州还没有领馆，所以我差不多
一两个月就要去一次广东，跟广
东政府进行有关经贸谈判等工
作。我常常有机会到深圳、到广
州看一看。中国各方面都发展得很快，变化很大。
记者：这么多年学中文，和中国打交道的经历对您的生活、家庭和事业产生了何种影响？
谢博德：学习汉语的经历对我的生活产生了重要的积极影响。首先，在职业发展上，为我开启了许多扇大门。同时，也使我获得了丰富而受益匪浅的职业经历，如担任澳大利亚的外交官，以及如今的大学副校长。这些机遇来自我学习中文以及在中国工作生活的经历。在个人生活上，我在中国呆了12年多，在我职业生涯中，总共有4次这样的在华经历，这些经历对我的生活和我的家庭都产生过极为重要的影响。我在香港到了终身伴侣，我的两个孩子们在香港出生，他们在香港、上海、北京生活的时间比在澳大利亚还多。对于我们全家来说，中国文化的丰富体验非常有益。
记者：我们再谈谈关于中西方文化
的比较。您来中国那么多次，对中国文
化有很多感受，您觉得这两个文化有哪
些相同和不同之处？
谢博德：这个说起来很复杂。我想
每一个国家文化都不一样。澳大利亚是
一个移民国家，我们都是移民。所以我们
成长的时候，受到了多元文化的影响，譬
如意大利、希腊、英国、苏格兰、法国、
美国等多国文化的影响。而中国文化是在
历史长河中一脉相承的。在相同点上，我
觉得中国人的“welcoming culture”（欢迎
文化）和澳大利亚人很像，比方说许多
热情的中国人会拉着手问你喝什么，在
别的国家不会这样问。对澳大利亚人来
说，客人来了，第一句话也会问你希望喝
什么。这个对中国文化和中国传统是非常
重要的，无论是老人还是年轻人，无论
是在北京还是南京，还是比较穷的地方，
都是这样。
记者：中国人对外国人都比较好客
友善。
谢博德：我可以再举一个例子：我
觉得我的中文说得不大好，听力不好，发
音也不好，但是，我和中国人说话时，没
有人会说我讲得不好。这个从我的经验来
说和在别的国家的经历完全不一样。外国
人在中国讲汉语，中国人都支持他们，帮
助他们。不管你说得如何，他们都会说你
讲得真好，非常多的人都愿意帮助我。在
很多别的国家，如果你不是很流利地讲
他们的母语，他们不是鼓励，不是批评你，
而是会嘲笑你。在中国完全没有这种情
况，无论是工人、出租车司机，还是教授，
都会支持你。我认为这是中国的一个符
号，是中国语言文化的独特土壤。我不知
道这是不是因为中文太难，又或者是中
国的一种独特文化——欢迎每个人。但
这种氛围对学习中文来说很有帮助，因
为你鼓励人们去尝试，使人们能在这种
难学的语言上坚持下来。
记者：您是学中国历史的，
中国历史上您最欣赏的人物是
谁？
谢博德：我觉得，可能是
周恩来，他对当代中国的影响
很大。老百姓也都觉得他做的
事情很好，这是我个人的看法。
记者：孔子学院主要是介
绍中文教学和介绍中华文化，
您如何看待昆士兰科技大学孔
子学院的作用？
谢博德：的确，孔子学院主
要是教中文，而我们相信我们可以凭借在
教学研究领域的优势，帮助汉语老师更好
地进行职业发展，更好地教汉语，从而
影响更多的孩子。或许你不知道，在很多
国家，大部分的孩子在小学就学中文，但
他们没有坚持到中学。根据我的研究，主
要的原因有两个。第一个是很多老师的教
学水平不好，他们或许可以讲很流利的中
文，但是他们缺乏教学方法。第二个原因
是有些老师有很好的教学方法，但是他们
不会讲中文。所以我们有两个策略，第一
个是对于那些中文讲得好的老师，我们要
提高他们的教学水平，这包括一些技术手
段，但最重要的是教学法，让孩子们能始
终保持学习语言的兴趣。第二个策略是
让那些会教学，但中文不很好的老师，提
高中文水平。我们的孔子学院有很强的语
言教学能力，我们大学在教学研究领域是
澳大利亚领先的。我们相信，如果我们能
认真对待并加以正确实践，就能帮助教
editor的汉语师快速提高，减少学生的流失。
学习汉语的经历在职业发展上，
为我开启了许多扇大门。在个人生活上，我在中国呆了12年多，在我职业生涯中，总共有4次这样的在华经历，这些经历对我的生活和我的家庭都产生过极为重要的影响。
本期人物
REPORTER: When you were a student, Chinese was a far less popu-lar foreign language to study than it is today. What made you decide to study it?
SHEPPARD: This is an interesting question. I was the first in my family to go to college. My father was from a working-class family, and my mother was from the countryside. I didn’t go to college right after high school; in-stead, I worked at a factory for 3 years and by the time I went to college I was already 21 years old. During the first year, I had to take some required courses. I wanted to learn a foreign lan
guage. But why I choose Chinese you might find a little strange; I want-ed to study Chinese history, because I felt that, of all countries in the world, China had the longest and most inter-esting history. That’s why I wanted to learn Chinese. After one year’s study, I found it so fascinating I just kept on studying.
REPORTER: For Westerners, Chi-nese seems a rather difficult language to learn. This must have been espe-cially true back in the days when you went to college, wasn’t it, without the benefit of a Chinese-learning environ-ment and with very little in the way of learning resources?
SHEPPARD: Absolutely. Many people didn’t want to learn Chinese because they had the psychological disadvantage of being afraid of the language even before they began to study it. If the university hadn’t re-quired us to learn a foreign language, I wouldn’t have wanted to learn Chi-nese either. When I learned Chinese, there was no Chinese language envi-ronment; the only language that the teachers and the students spoke was English. Things are very different in my children’s generation. They had opportunities, at a very early age, to be in a Chinese language environ-ment, to learn about China, and to talk with Chinese people. So, they are not afraid, and they don’t think that Chinese learning is difficult at all. They are now in middle school,
and are still learning Chinese. So,
compared to mine, my children’s gen-
eration is very lucky when it comes to
learning Chinese.
REPORTER: Before you started
learning Chinese, what were your im-
pressions of China?
SHEPPARD: Another very inter-
esting question. My impressions of
China came from two things. First,
when I was in high school, I was
fascinated with ancient history, espe-
cially ancient Chinese history. I read
a lot of books and documents related
to ancient China, which I found ex-
tremely rich. So, my first impressions
of China were formed through read-
ing. At university, I wanted to study
ancient Chinese or Asian history, but
the university could only offer courses
in modern history. So, I began to
study modern Chinese history, that’s
to say, Chinese history after 1911.
This, too, left a considerable impact
on me.
The other thing happened in 1981.
During my work after high school, I
traveled to Hong Kong for a week. In
those days there were very few for-
eigners in China, and foreigners in
China were kept under strict control.
It was the first China visit for me
and my companion, and neither of
us knew anything about the Chinese
language. After touring Hong Kong,
we took a train to Guangdong. At
that time, the development of Shen-
zhen had just started, and there were
no tall buildings. So, this trip too,
influenced me significantly. Back in
Australia after the trip, I decided I
would study Chinese at a university.
REPORTER: T hat wa s when
China had just started to reform and
open to the outside world and was not
as prosperous as today.
SHEPPARD: At that time, many
Chinese were still relatively poor and
wanted to come to Hong Kong from
Guangdong. There was a lot of police
along the border between Shenzhen
and Hong Kong. After I graduated
from university, I began to work in
the Department of Foreign Affairs
and Trade. Two years later, I was
sent to Hong Kong as an economic
counselor. At that time, Australia
didn’t have a consulate in Guangzhou.
I had to visit Guangdong every one
or two months to conduct economic
and trade negotiations with the pro-
vincial government there; so, I had a
lot of opportunities to see Shenzhen
and Guangzhou. In the 10 years from
1981 to 1991, China went through
tremendous changes with very fast
development in all areas.
REPORTER: You have learned
Chinese and made contact with Chi-
na for so many years. In what ways
has this influenced your life, your
family, and your career?
SHEPPARD: The Chinese learn-
ing experience has significantly influ-
enced my life in positive ways. First,
it has opened many doors for me in
my career development. It enabled
me to accumulate rich and reward-
ing professional experience, such as
serving as an Australian diplomat
and now as Deputy Vice-Chancellor
at a university. These opportunities
have all resulted from my experience
of learning Chinese and working and
living in China. I have lived in China
for more than 12 years and have
held 4 positions there. These have
all greatly influenced my life and my
family. I met my wife in Hong Kong
and our two children were born there.
My children have lived in Hong
Kong, Shanghai, and Beijing longer
than they have lived in Australia. For
our entire family, such rich experi-
ence with Chinese culture has been
extremely rewarding.
REPORTER: Now let’s talk about
comparing Chinese and Western
cultures. You have come to China so
many times and have had extensive
experience with Chinese culture.
What similarities and differences do
you see between these two cultures?
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